SEND SPYGATE INVESTIGATION COSTS TO KRAFT!!

by Vito Puntillo
(Shrewsbury, MA)

Why are we still arguing about this???.........the Pats admitted to cheating since 2000 - Goodell hid that fact until Spector questioned him.

Case closed.

I've been waiting months for evidence of these so called "other teams" that do this- that ignorant Pats fans keep referencing??

Where are they??? Why hasn't Bellicheat exposed these "other teams"?????

Pats fans keep rambling about "they proved by winning 18 games last year - that they didn't need to cheat" -

People - they were caught cheating in game 1 - did you forget that?? And if they didn't need to do it - why have they been cheating(admittedly) since 2000???

The fact that Goddell hid that fact is huge - he should be fired and an impartial commissioner needs to investigate. Nothing will get done with kraft's buddy Goddell at the helm.

A real sad state of affairs in football right now. The only way justice will be served is if Specter pushes this forward. I hope he does.

My new favorite Pats excuse, rationalization and justification is "why is congress wasting our money on this"?

Funny that these same people in Massachusetts that I speak with can't even name their senator or congressman. And when I ask them how much they think an investigation will cost - they look at me with that VERY COMMON Ignorant Pats fan blank stare and can't muster a number.

Funny that these fans who refuse to admit their team is a bunch of classless cheaters (even though the Pats themselves have) now all of a sudden are interested in Congress?? Mind you - most of them can't spell Congress.

I tried to make a deal with them - I asked them if they would agree an investigation would be feasable if a) Specter only worked on it during his free time and b) what ever "costs" were incurred were paid by the Pats? (I continued to get those blank stares from these Pats fans)....

Seriously, why not?? - the Pats are the proven admitted cheaters. Think of all that money they made since 2000 (basically stealing from their NFL partners)- all that money made based on cheating - think of just the home field advantages they won in those playoff years (all through cheating)alone.

Cheating has lined the pockets of Bob Kraft since 2000 now quite nicely. Thats why he extended Bellicheats contract instead of firing the proven cheater. And cheating is good business if you have the right people in place (Goodell) to cover things up for you if you are ever caught. Good business indeed.

So Congress can send Kraft and the Pats the bill for any investigation. He owes real football fans and America for cheating us out of this great game since 2000.

Fair enough??

Gutless Bob Kraft and the classless cheating Pats owe us at least that????

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May 28, 2008
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great points!!
by: Anonymous

all great points - let the Patriots foot the bill!!

May 30, 2008
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RE: Spygate Investigation Costs to Kraft
by: Anonymous

Jimmy Johnson said that when he coached the Cowboys, he used the same videotaping procedures Belichick used. Guess who Johnsonâ€™s offensive coordinator was? Current Chargersâ€™ coach Norv Turner. Hereâ€™s something else interesting, Johnson said he learned the videotaping procedure in 1990 from an employee of another team. This scout showed him the way the other teamâ€™s staff taped opposing coaches giving signals. This was back before the coach to QB communication system went into effect so this teamâ€™s defensive coaches - guys like Tony Dungy, Bill Cohwer, and Herm Edwards also beneifted from signal taping. The team? The Kansas City Chiefs - coached by Marty Schottenheimer who's also coached the Browns, Redskins, and Chargers during his career and who has quite a coaching tree.

Now I donâ€™t want to say all this stuff without backing it up, so hereâ€™s a transcript of Johnsonâ€™s comments from his appearance on WFAN, a New York radio station back on September 28, 2007:
Jimmy Johnson Transcript.

Hereâ€™s an audio link to Johnsonâ€™s comments. He discusses that weekâ€™s games with the host. About half way through, when they get to the Patriotsâ€™ game is when Johnson makes his comments:
Jimmy Johnson Audio.

Also, yeah, Goodell destroyed New England's copies of the tapes, but he didn't destroy all the copies. You're forgetting that the tapes were leaked to FOX, and that Jay Glazer of FOX still has copies.
Tapes.

Scott

May 30, 2008
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Why Investigate This At All?
by: Anonymous

Anyone who thinks other teams haven't taped other teams signals is living under a rock. Some have admitted it; others remain mysteriously silent. In your arguement, you claim the Patriots cheated to win. I guess you don't know the meaning of the word cheat. Misinterpreting a rule without the intent to gain an advantage is a mistake, not giving any advantage to the team during the game. They couldn't use it during the game if they wanted to. There isn't enough time to analyze it. The other teams will change their signs for each game, unless they are morons. The Patriots beat everybody last season en route to the SB; they taped no one, and old records would be useless due to personnel changes. And, if they were cheating as you claim, why wouldn't they do so to win the SB? Your arguement doesn't hold water. Leave Bob Kraft alone. If you want an investigation, YOU pay for it.

Jun 01, 2008
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cheating
by: Anonymous

The Pats cheated when they taped the sidelines- period. They've admitted to this and were penalized. They also admitted to doing this since 2000. Those are facts.

People can accuse other teams,etc - but until there is any proof - we have 1 cheating team - THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS.

Someone else mentioned that they went the whole year last year without cheating???? Did that Jets game in which they were caught taping not count???
Talk about denial!!

Another person wrote that it only helped them in future games? fine - than all games since 2000 through last year are in question - and possibly future games.

Someone else wrote that taping the sidelines doesn't help in that game - it takes too long to analize?? How do you know? If the Pats could decipher 1 or 2 play calls from the first quarter and perfectly defend or call the perfect offensive play to counter it , say in the 4th qtr - that would be a huge advantage. And yes- lets not be naive - they taped both offense and defensive calls.

Also - if teams change their signals every game - per what another person in this fine forum wrote -why would the Pats do this cheating since 2000??

Why cheatingly tape those sidelines if you don't get any benefit?? Lets stop pretending to be dumb here.

Pats "fans" need to stop pretending,crying like little girls, rationalizing, justifying and making excuses for all that Pats cheating since 2000. The Pats are proven admitted cheaters - and that will never go away, be justified, rationalized or excused by real football fans. Period.

Thus- one is either a real football fan (against NFL cheating- meaning the taping of sidelines) or one is just a Pats "fan" (willing to make excuse after excuse,after excuse - for proven cheaters).

At this point - you just have to ask yourself which are you a) a real football fan or 2) a Pats "fan".

I'm a real football fan.

Jun 01, 2008
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facts
by: Anonymous

Facts-

The Pats have admitted to cheating since 2000.

Bellicheat and the Pats are cheaters- plain and simple.

Not Facts-

Jimmy Johnson's statements.

Was Jimmy Johnson serious with what he said? I mean did anyone really take him seriously? if the NFL took him seriously - wouldn't they investigate??? Wouldn't the teams he beat as a Cowboy be speaking out like all these teams and players have spoke out against the Pats (Joey Porter, Hined Ward, Lito Sheppard, etc)?? Johnson clearly didn't cheat in Miami- at least I hope not - because it clearly didn't help him win??

One poster claims Johnson accused half the league?

Thats called heresay- no proof. See thats what Pats fans are doing when they accuse "other teams" with no proof.

More importantly wouldn't the Pats team and disgraced coaches accuse these so-called "other cheaters"??? The fact is they haven't accused anyone. Why do you think that is??? It not because the classless Pats have character - we know Bellicheat and that crew clearly do not- so why???

Other Pats cheating excuse makers want to say that teams that are mysteriously silent are guilty??? Thats a little flawed don't you think?
Maybe those teams are silent because they don't cheat like the Pats do?

But fine - Investigate them. Lets investigate them all- but lets start with the Pats - who have admitted to cheating since 2000. Lets find out what they did and what was the extent of this cheating??? How much did they benefit - and they did benefit - lets not kid ourselves. The Pats and Bellicheat didn't tape the sidelines and cheat since 2000 - because it didn't help them!!
C'mon now.

And as far as people who don't think every team cheated beind referred to as "living under a rock", I once again ask - if you know of "other teams" that do this - please- please let us and the NFL know who they are.(and then show us your proof- good luck with that)

Thats like saying just becuase the Pats players and coaches are classless - that all players in the league are classless -and I don't agree with that.

Hey Pats fans - "if everyone does this" as you say - you should have no issues with an independent objective (no Goddell) investigation.

Why are you sooooo afraid of an investigation - if you think "everyone does this"???

Jun 01, 2008
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Leave Kraft alone??
by: Anonymous

One poster wrote "leave Bob Kraft alone"???

You mean the guy that benefitted financially from all that Pats admitted, proven cheating since 2000??????????????

Are you kidding me?? When Bellicheat and the Pats were accused of doing this KRAFT replied "people make up things about your team team to bring you down when you are on top". (He was probably hoping Goddell would cover this all up for him)

When the NFL proved the Pats cheated and Bellicheat admitted to cheating since 2000 - Kraft extended Bellicheats contract. Does that make sense ? Bellicheat disgraces the franchise, gets a pick taken away, costs Kraft money in fines .............AND KRAFT EXTENDED HIS CONTRACT?????

Think of how much money Kraft has made since 2000?? Mind you - cheating the whole time???

No - Kraft shouldn't be allowed to play dumb here and get off the hook - he and his band of merry cheaters need to held accountable and fit that bill. (or they should give back their profits of all those cheating years and have that money be redistributed to the other NFL owners they cheated out of that money)

Its only fair - If I cheat in a card game and win the hand and then get caught after the hand cheating - do I get to keep the money???

How about if I have been cheating at card all night and win a lot of money - once I'm caught cheating- will the other players let me keep the money I won cheating earlier that night - i think not.

Jun 01, 2008
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Why Would Goodell Help the Patriots?
by: Anonymous

"(He was probably hoping Goddell would cover this all up for him)"

Now why would Roger Goodell,a former NY Jets employee, want to cover up for the Jets' biggest obstacle in the AFC East? Let's get real here. Jets security notified NFL security about Matt Estrella taping their staff. The NFL guys detained Estrealla, confiscated the footage, and sent it directly to the league offices. If Goodell wanted to cover up, he could have just said the tape had nothing but cheerleaders on it.

Do you think the league wants teams like New England, Dallas in the 90s, San Francisco in the 80s, or Pittsburgh in the 70s winning 3 or 4 Super Bowls in a decade? Think again. The league's rules are designed to promote parity. Every time a dynasty comes along, the league puts in new rules to make it tougher. The Super Bowl winner drafts last in each round (unless they make a trade), the worst team drafts first. That wasn't working, so we got free agency rules which meant that teams jam packed with talent at every position could no longer keep all that talent together for very long. That didn't work, so we got the salary cap, etc., etc, along with lots of other rules promoting parity, not dominant teams. The league does not want a team winning 3 Super Bowls like New England did.

Yes, Boston is a fairly large market, but the NFL's ratings were good there even when the Pats were struggling. Yes, the Patriots had years where they were 1-15 and 2-14 and the league got a long just fine.

Then, there's the biggest flaw in the Goodell wants to protect the Patriots' argument. The team is largely hated and despised outside of New England. It doesn't have a large nation wide following like the Cowboys, Steelers, Raiders, or a few other teams. The Cowboys have fans in every state in the country. The league benefits much more when teams like that do well.

Jun 01, 2008
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facts
by: Scott

"Not Facts-

"Jimmy Johnson's statements."

An earlier post has links leading to Johnson's statements. You can read them, or you can hear him say it yourself. It's a fact that he admitted to taping, and it's a fact that he said he learned how to do it the way that Marty Schottenheimer's Chiefs were doing it 17 years earlier.

"Was Jimmy Johnson serious with what he said? I mean did anyone really take him seriously? if the NFL took him seriously - wouldn't they investigate???"

Hmmm . . . First you denied Johnson made those comments, now you're wondering if he was serious. Well, take a listen. Sounds perfectly serious to me. It's about half way into the show.

It's hypocrisy not to investigate other teams.

Jun 01, 2008
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facts
by: Scott

"Wouldn't the teams he beat as a Cowboy be speaking out like all these teams and players have spoke out against the Pats (Joey Porter, Hined Ward, Lito Sheppard, etc)?? Johnson clearly didn't cheat in Miami- at least I hope not - because it clearly didn't help him win??"

Again, it's hypocrisy to speak out when one team does something, but ignore it when someone else does it.

Schottenheimer's Chiefs didn't win any Super Bowls either despite their video taping practices. I'm sure there has to be some benefit, but taping signals isn't some magical formula for automatic success.

The biased media doesn't hate Johnson or Schottenheimer like they hate Belichick. Johnson gave fun press conferences with lots of good quotes and great material for stories. Belichick gives deliberately bland and boring press conferences and gives the media as little info as possible. Worse still, Belichick gets his players to give out as little information as possible. He wants his team focused on the next opponent, not on some story the media wants to concoct to drive up ratings. If you'd followed Belichick's career closely before Spygate, you'd know there were plenty of "storylines" the media tried to build which withered away because Belichick wouldn't play along. The media doesn't have an axe to grind against Johnson, but they'd like nothing better than to destroy Belichick because in trying to make his player's job easier (just worry about the game, not all the side issues and distractions), he makes the media's job harder. They have similar reactions to military commanders who don't want to discuss troop movements, strategy, and tactics in a public forum, you know, where the enemy can listen in. (Come to think of it, Belichick has had a military influence from an early age. After being born in Nashville, he spent a lot of his early years at the US Naval Academy in Maryland where his father was long time scout for Navy's football team. So maybe that explains Belichick's distrust for the media.)

"One poster claims Johnson accused half the league?"

I must have missed that one. Johnson said he tried it out with the Cowboys, and that he was taught to do it the way Schottenheimer's Chiefs did it. It doesn't take too much effort to look and see that Schottenheimer's coaching staff at that time had Bill Cohwer, Herm Edwards, and Tony Dungy on it. And, of course, that was back when the offense signaled in plays.

Jun 01, 2008
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Offensive Signals Too??
by: Anonymous

"And yes- lets not be naive - they taped both offense and defensive calls."

Whoa! They recorded offensive coaches holding laminated sheets in front of their faces so no one can read their lips!! That's it!! Throw the book at them!! There's no bigger advantage in all of football than having video of a guy holding a laminated sheet. This is outrageous!!!

Dec 07, 2010
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Patriots
by: Anonymous 2

Just wanted to comment on a "anonymous' post about the Patriots spygate issue. I guess some sport fans comments are just that, "sports fans comments" I have found that the majority of sport fans that post these ridiculous comments have never themself played organized football. If they did they would know that it was always, always, a standard practice for oposing teams to steal the signals or plays of the other teams. Scouting was just another word to hide all these actions. I could remember as far back as pop warner football our coach would make us sit thru all the division games to see if we could pick up a signal or two for a particular play that always worked well for a team. If you are to comment on issue please know what you are talking about, and stop hating on teams that are always in the winning circle.

Dec 07, 2010
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What have they won since not cheating?
by: Anonymous

Yeah - thats the point isn't it? The Pats were in the "winners circle" when admittingly cheating- what have they won since???

They got exposed as frauds once the Giants took them to school............18 meaningless wins ......1 GIANT LOSS!!!

What since then have they accomplished??

Nothing ..........hey- lets be honest here- they were much "better" when cheating!

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